And, of course, being a kid I never really watched any of the progress as it was really going

Art Meyer By Wayne Latham

Latham - Good evening. It's July 13th. I'm Wayne Latham, and I'm having a conversation with Art Meyer here in Wellington, CO. Good evening, Sir. As I mentioned to you on the phone, some of the things we'd be talking about would be your family, your association with the North Poudre, association with farming here in Wellington and what you think the future is going to be all about.

Meyer - Well, I'm a lifetime resident. I was born in this northern area of Fort Coffins, and I went 12 years to Waverly Schools, all years. And my dad lived in the Waverly area, and we farmed and have been involved with North Poudre all our lives. And, of course, being a kid I never really watched any of the progress as it was really going. But now you can see what really has happened to their company. From that we went and served a term in Korea for a couple of years, came back and was married and returned back to this country. And so I guess I'm really a resident of North Poudre's and this country.

Latham - When did your folks. . . were they born and raised in this area?

Meyer - Well, no, but they moved to this area in 1940, or at least in the Waverly area. And so from 1940 until Dad retired, they lived in this area. And at that time there wasn't a lot of water. I know that he was forced to grow things like grains where it only needed to be irrigated once or twice, and maybe some corn and very few sugar beets because there wasn't any water at that time as much as there is now. But, of course, the Monroe Canal and some of the reservoirs weren't built yet then. And so it wasn't uncommon to have an acre foot and a half, so to speak, for a season. And that would just about finish barley, and that

would be about all.

Latham - Where did your dad move from? Where did your folks come from?

Meyer - They came from Russia. They were German, and they moved in that descent.

They came from Russia, both my mother and dad. And moved into the Fort Collins area in that earlier time to work sugar beets really, as sugar beet tenders. And later were able to buy equipment and do their own farming.

Latham - This property that you're on now, is this where your folks originally farmed?

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Meyer, - No, they lived in Waverly, west of Waverly a couple of miles. It's now a fish farm over there. And then we moved to Buckeye, and lived up there for awhile, and were able to buy a little farm up there. And then in later years, in 1975, we bought enough acreage to build a house here from Dallas Horton. He owned this section, so to speak. And each two or three years, we would buy another part of the place, and finally traded our farm at Buck- eye for a quarter of this, until we finally bought the section. As we bought the place, we bought it dry, so we had to purchase our North Poudre water, a couple of shares a year of however we could get it until we finally got enough to go. We still need to buy a little more water. We still don't have an adequate supply.

Latham - Do you wind up renting that? Is that a possibility for you?

Meyer - Yes, it has been. Yes, and we do rent water, and all the farms that we lease are short of supply, and we have to rent water from them so. . . Yes, we rent quite a bit of water that's on the board.

Latham - What ditch serves your acreage here?

Meyer, - It's the Main. And then we go off the Cheyenne. And the Cheyenne. . . both this ditch serves Cactus Hill. Cactus Hill, when I was on the board, was about 25% of the stock used, and so a lot of water goes into the Cactus Hill area, and they come through the Chey- enne to Indian Creek, and then also serve it through Clarks Lake. So that makes it nice. As long as that country is being irrigated, the company can run the ditch pretty steady so water is available fulltime in irrigation season, and it makes it nice that you can order water any-

time you like.

Latham - Now, when you were up in the buckeye, do you remember much of that and the water sources up there at all?

Meyer, - Yes. Of course, Park Creek served Buckeye along with Halligan Reservoir. And at the time we lived up there, there was a lot of water stock. And it was always my feeling that if any of the country ever dried up, it wouldn't be Buckeye because it was so far from the City of Fort Collins and isolated as it is. And there was an awful lot of water stock up there anyway, and so I felt like that country could survive a long time. Well, it didn't hap- pen that way, it was the first to go. Yes, there is very little owned. There is much more rented water up there anymore than there is owned water.

Latham - There seems to be, from what I've learned, that seems to be an odd little twist that happened up there in reference to. . . I don't know whether it was the farmer. . I don't know. What do you think happened?

Meyer - Well, I think it was the times. It was the time of an agricultural slump. You know, they were and still are big farmers up there, and maybe felt it worse than smaller farmers so to speak. And, I don't know, maybe too partly some of it would be that there were some investors involved. And investors doesn't have any, oh, some of them didn't have the need to keep farms and water together. If there was a dollar in selling water, why that happened, and then the land stayed idle or that kind of thing happened a little bit too. But, you know, it shouldn't have happened in that country because it's such a great country.

Latham - It's pretty up there. Did you know. . . I understand that Green Acres had a place up there for a period of time, and if my history is right, the Monroes ultimately purchased that and maybe made a larger spread themselves. Did you know those folks?

Meyer, - I knew the Monroes. We farmed her place for a few years, Mrs. Monroe. Yes, they had a wonderful ranch. As I can remember their history, he was one of the largest sheep growing facilities that there was in the country. They had a nice sheep operation up there.

Latham - Tell me a bit about when you started buying this property here, this is when you first started to have to buy North Poudre stock to get your water. When was that?

Meyer, - We built a house in '75, and we never owned any land. We just leased from Dallas Horton, and then in later years, let's see it was 1978, we purchased our first 160. And then every other year or so, we bought a quarter from him. And as some of the land wasn't developed, why the policy of North Poudre was that if you wanted new headgates, yoii had to buy 10 shares of water. So, old Harlan Seaworth, he always said, "Well, we're doing

you a favor, you need to buy the water anyway." He was sure right. And so, in those years then, we bought water and land. And I was going to say that on the first go around, it was in the years approaching the 80's when everything was smoke and blow, you know, why

everything was high. North Poudre water temporarily got at $10,000 a share. We gave

$8,000 for some of ours. We got in that too. And $1500 an acre for the land, and I sup- pose if we wanted to sell today, we could barely see the $1500 an acre.

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Latham - Okay, and water is running around $5500 to $5200, something like that.

Meyer, - Yes, $5250, something like that.

Latham - Lots of people, I remember, having been a resident of Fort Coffins, just housing at that time went through a wild little spike in itself. So what do you grow on your land here?

Meyer - We grow malting barley for Coors, and alfalfa, sugar beets, whatever they allow us to grow. We're limited on those. And both shelled corn and ensilage. We have some good ensilage contracts. I think that's gotten to be kind of a hassle for most agricultural people.

They don't. . . ensilage, it takes a football crew to put that stuff up nearly. So it's been a lot nicer just to take the combine and shell the corn, and so we've gone to more ensilage

because we have a good market for it since nobody else is entering. . .

Latham - I understand the barley perhaps for Coors has been. . . I don't know much about growing things, but I understand it's a difficult crop to . . .

Meyer - It is. You know, there are good years and bad years. We've had good years where we've sold it all and got premiums. And we've had bad years like last year where we never sold a kernel. And the previous year we grew the full amount and sold it. But, it has some advantages where you can use the early free water. And then you can have that crop out of the way before the corn and the row crop needs its water, so to speak. But we think we're going to quit it anyway because it's just such a hassle with the Russian Aphid, and anymore it seems like as soon as we bring the corithine out, the dews and the rains come and color it.

So we think we're going to quit it.

Latham - Do you have any thoughts, memories on, like, memorable water seasons? This year seems to have been seemingly an odd one, wet in the Spring. We seem to have had maybe two weeks of summer. Now, more rain in the last couple of days.

Meyer, - Well, yes, there has been years. . . Well, let's see, it would have been, I'm going to guess it's probably around 72 or 3, that we watered and watered, and watered up to get the crops started. We never had any rain until. . . oh, I can remember a neighbor and I specifically remember it was the 4th of July when he was just starting to water his. But, of course, we were probably done irrigating all the corn by then, but we've had some dry years. And, you know, I think we've had some wet years lately, and you know, we don't remember the dry years that we used to have. But we've been fortunate with the company.

It has done a good job in serving us through because there has been years where I'm not too sure that we could see the fish coming from halligan to finish our beet crop. They drained that thing, so to speak to get us enough water. But we've been very fortunate with it.

Latham - You joined the board when?

Meyer - Well, let's see, I'd have to think back a little. I should have had that question. I served on the board for six years, and let's see, Dorothy went in my place, and so she just finished her term, so she went three, so 9 years ago is when we. .

Latham - 82, 84, excuse me, get my math right. . .

Meyer - Duane Ransey went off the board voluntarily because he had bought some land out in the east, and we went on the board, and I served 2 terms.

Latham - What was your driving reason? You have to get elected, so you have to make that decision why.. .

Meyer - Well, there were some instrumental people that. . . I'll mention Harlan Seaworth.

Him and Felsnore both wanted to get off the board at that time. And I felt like I ought to wait until they got off the board, and Bob Steven came around one day, and he said, "Well, I think that if you serve on the board with them, you would really learn a lot." And I'm

glad that I got to serve with Harlan and Phil because they were 2 outstanding men for the company. Bob Steven was too. Bob was on the board too at that time. And it was a plea- sure serving at that time because you didn't need to know any of the answers because they had them all. And we did learn a lot from Phil and Harlan and Bob.

Latham - Were there any highlights, things that the company did during that time that you were on the board that you found particularly interesting or noteworthy?

Meyer - Oh yes, there were a lot of things. A lot of things that were interesting. At that time the company never had a shop. And they had a shop in Wellington, and it wasn't a facility big enough to get hardly a pick-up in. A pick-up was all. So they would change oil in their equipment on the street, and it seemed dangerous to me and the rest of the board,

that maybe some day some young boy might get run over backing out of there or something.

So I really wanted to see a different shop. And we worked in several areas, and I wasn't pleased that the shop got where it is presently, but as it's turned out, it is a good and has turned out to be a good place for the shop.

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Latham - It's on the north side of town somewhere, but I haven't been there yet. Now, in reference to that, they still own that other property downtown don't they?

Meyer - No, we sold that. We sold that to Smelkers, and he auctions out of there. My concern at that time was that Wellington never had a policeman anymore. They used the sheriff, and he's assigned in this country, but he isn't here all the time, and I was always thinking that maybe there would be some vandalism. And there has been a little bit of that there, but it's worked out nevertheless.

Latham - It's all fenced up, and it's a nice building, I understand.

Meyer, - Yes, it is. It's a nice building. And it is a shop. That was one of the things. Of course when I came on the board, they were just finishing up Fossil Creek rehabilitation, and I didn't have much to do with that, only just to watch it be finished. But after I was on we

did Lake 15 first. That's beautiful. And Clark Reservoir. And then we started on No. 2, but I never got a chance to see that finished.

Latham - Was--I'm trying to remember her name—Jackie?

Meyer - Oh yes, Jackie, yes, I know exactly the engineer you're talking about, but I can't seem to remember. . . But we could find that in the minutes couldn't we.

Latham - Sure. Just reading early notes, that just when she was taken on to do some early North Poudre jobs, maybe because she was a woman doing engineering jobs, that upset maybe some construction people and things like that. Do you remember any of that?

Meyer - Well, yes. There was controversy over it. But she was a good engineer I thought.

And she worked with--you know we're going back to names, and I sure forget names quick- ly--she worked with an engineering firm that.. .

Latham - Bruns?

Meyer - Bruns, yes. And he was a pretty exceptional engineer. Yes, she just represented them, and she did a good job. She wasn't afraid to get her feet wet if she had to. It was a little different thinking, you know an old farmer attitude, looking at a woman as an engineer for a company, but she did a good job, nevertheless. But it was pretty exciting. The thing that I think that I remember mostly is that I think that the company has facilities that the stockholders don't even realize. When I went up to Halligan Reservoir, you've seen the picture out there, and Ben Durnler, the manager then, he had a flooding situation. The tubes

were opened, and he was spilling water, and it was spilling water over the dam. The tubes were running at such force that there was a roar in Phantom Canyon. And mist from the tubes was coming up as high as the dam. And you know it's just a sight that you can't imagine, nobody gets to see. And the same way with 15, when we rebuilt that, looking on it from Colorado Lean up there, Lake 15 lays in a prairie situation with Colorado's Lean

riprapped, and what a beautiful sight. It's things like the Monroe Canal and the Livermore chutes, and things like, the assets that the company has that most stockholders don't even realize.

Latham - Yes, I believe so. What's the. . . when I think about it you mentioned the Phan- torn Canyon, it brings to mind the whole nature conservancy thing and the fact that North Poudre runs water through there for. . . What do you think of that whole. . .?

Meyer - [Laughter] Well, I think that was kind of one of my problems that got me off the board, was the start of it. Phantom Canyon, the fact that, you know I don't think that Carl Judson was doing anything illegal at all. And he made that pretty clear.

Latham - That was Halligan Resources he was with?

Meyer, - Yes, Halligan Resources he was with. And, you know, he first sold it to the city, and everyone thought that Carl was becoming a millionaire, and I even told Carl personally

he needed to put out a disclosure sheet to the stockholders so they could really see how much money he was making on a thing. That, and selling property up there. It seemed like Carl was doing something that was making too much money or something, and I supported Carl.

I did. And I supported some other things I guess I shouldn't have.

Latham - Well, that's why you get on the board.

Meyer - That's why I got off too. [Laughter] But I have no regrets. There was nothing shady or anything in that form.

Latham - Sounds like he was just perhaps a forward thinker in his way.

Meyer, - He was. But he was protective of the country. He always said, "There will be no fences. If we sell a few sights for houses, there will be no fences. We don't want to disturb the area much. But it would make a nice housing site to overlook Phantom Canyon and that beauty that they have up there. But I really don't know whether much of that got sold, since the conservative district is in there, I don't know that much of that land is. . .

Latham - I don't know either. It grows into the perhaps current story or a thought, Carl sold it to the city, and then maybe it didn't happen, maybe it did, but right now it seems that

maybe the North Poudre is involved with negotiations with the city to kind of do the same thing. What do you think of that?

Meyer, - Yes. Well, it is the same thing. You know, I think Carl handled his, when he ap- proached the board, and he wanted the North Poudre so to speak as a puffier. They wanted to rebuild a reservoir, and he had some very impressive lawyers and very impressive people.

I mean money people. Some that you'd recognize and look up to. And, you just had to notice it. And the way he was able to conduct himself, so that happened, then in later years I think they lost some of their key money people and so all of that conglomerate dissolved,

and then he sold to the city. Now the city may go together with North Poudre and be a partner and rebuild a reservoir, and so it is about the same thing. And I suppose some of the stockholders aren't satisfied with that either today.

Latham - I don't know. I haven't caught wind, but perhaps I will. What an interesting project.

Meyer - It is. It's an expensive one, and it's one in my opinion that you would have to dream about. I can't imagine that happening. When I was on the board a few of us went to Parachute and saw a dam being built by dry concrete being rolled down and just built the

dam up with dry concrete and whatever aggregate they had there. And it always seemed to me like that would be the proper way of rebuilding the reservoir up there if they ever did it.

But they may even find a new sight. I don't know if it's ever been. It sounds like they may even find a new sight.

Latham - I think I've seen something about that. Tell me about 5 and 6. Were you involved in that at all. That seems to be a long-term thing that they've been thinking about.

Meyer - We had conversations about 5 and 6. In my opinion, I don't think it's wrong to rebuild any reservoir. Five and six is like Fossil Creek. Fossil Creek is out of our system.

And there were so many stockholders when that was being rebuilt felt like that wasn't the reservoir to rebuild in our area because it couldn't serve our area. But it's proven that all of that water has been traded, and so it is an asset to us. I've always drug my feet on 5 and 6 because unless. . . I always felt we ought to find the buyer first for the water, then rebuild

the reservoir. I didn't want to rebuild the reservoir and then find the buyer. And I don't know which is right. But either way, I can't believe that it would be wrong to build.. . you couldn't go build a reservoir anywhere, anyplace hardly, in this day and age. And since there is a facility there, and it's established, why you know, better keep it where it's at, work off of that. So I think we're premature for 5 and 6, but there is certainly going to be a day when it's going to be needed.

Latham - What's the. . . one of your neighbors, Don Apway that I met, Steve Goodwin, the other day. He's on a million boards it seems. Do you get involved in that kind of thing?

Meyer, - He's on what?

Latham - A million different boards.

Meyer - Oh yes. Steve's really involved with the Tri-State, electricity, electrical boards.

And he's good for that. And rightfully so. You know he's at an age where he has time for it. Like with me, I don't think I'd have time for any of that right now. And so we've been

asked to be on a few boards, but I've just kind of thought that it's so time consuming . . .and by the way, I'd like to ask you, Steven is really, I farm his farm over here, I lease it.

And he has really been involved with the Scurvin Ditch. Did you interview him?

Meyer, - Yes. I learned some great stories about the Scurvin Ditch and his Dad, the dentist.

Meyer - I wanted you to have that, but I was sure you did.

Latham - Yes, that's a fun little twist, and his collection of stuff.

Meyer - Right. All the board has seen that. Maybe he makes a point too, I don't know.

Latham - He wanted to show it off and also be quiet about it at the same time.

Meyer - Certainly, I understand. But he did deserve to be interviewed because I think the Scurvin Ditch was a real important part of the play of North Poudre because, you how, to get the water down. . .

Latham - I've allowed myself a certain confusion because lately I've been reading about Laramie Poudre Company from the Laramie Poudre Canal, and then every now and then I get confused over the North Fork Ditch and the Main Canal and names change a lot and things like that. So I've gone through a bunch of learning processes myself over this whole thing. What do you think about the "brew ha ha" over the potential dams up the Poudre Canyon?

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Meyer - You know, when I was on the board, I thought they would happen. And listening to Larry I really thought they would happen. But I don't know that they ever will. And at

this point in time I don't know that we need the water. There has been some mistakes through the years. I feel like the Two-Forks should have been built. And maybe down the road maybe we do need a reservoir up here in Livermore, but I don't know whether we need it now.

Latham - What's your thoughts on growth, on the city of Fort Collins, marching north.

Meyer, - Boy, it's marching south too.

Latham - It is, big time.

Meyer - And, well I don't know, I don't guess it's going to end. It doesn't look like it's going to end. I thought that it might. I don't know what everybody is doing. But I think you've got to say that specifically North Poudre has got one of the outlying areas that has more water than anyone else. So I think that down the road there is sure a chance for poten- tial growth for this area. I don't think in a lot of places they have that to offer. And so I think we'll see growth. We just came from Cheyenne last night, and as we watched the

buildings being built in Fort Collins and the surrounding areas, and even out in our area, and boy, Cheyenne, not being so far away, isn't doing anything.

Latham - It's a sleepy town.

Meyer - Yes, it is. And as we drove through the main street at probably 7 o'clock or so, I told Marilyn, "Boy, this is sure quiet, it's kind of like driving through Wellington." But you don't do that in Fort Coffins. Gee, that thing is getting big. But I do believe they'll keep chopping up farms until they finally chop them all out of here. I always felt that way, and I always felt like Buckeye would be the last to be chopped up, but even Buckeye is losing Latham - Is it?

Meyer - Yes, it's getting new houses, and Waverly, my there are a lot of new houses. It puts strain on things like that old Waverly Road, and no sewer system, and water.

Latham - So do you, I guess besides seeing it come, do you feel comfortable with that, knowing that somewhere down the pike perhaps sections of your farm is going to be a subur- ban neighborhood maybe, or. .

Meyer, - Well, one quarter that I bought was already subdivided. It went through 2 filings.

It needed to go through 3. But it never made it. An old farmer like myself, I hate to see farms be chopped up, and I'm 63, and I felt like it's time that maybe I ought to quit too.

And we put our farm up for sale, and the realtor told us that selling it as a unit, it's going to be harder to sell. The smaller increments that we would chop it up for, why it would be easier to sell, and even get more money per acre. So I'm going to say if we wanted to sell the place, it would be easy to sell it in 35-acre tracts. But I'm going to hold out for awhile anyway, or for as long as I can, because there is something about this place that I really like to see it as a farm.

Latham - Yes, it is pretty.

END OF TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE START OF TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO Latham -. . . children?

Meyer, - We have 2 boys. One is a farmer here in this area. He wanted a farm on his own, Allen. And Terry, he is a banker. He works at the Denver Tech Center. He works for Co- Bank down there. He has a nice job, and he works with farmers too really. It was interest- ing when we went to. . . we go to California every year, I've got a brother out there, and it's north of Sacramento in a farming area, and we went to buy some walnuts one day, and

he said, "Why, this is one of my clients here." One that he served. But they serve more coops and things like this.

Latham - Yes, I was going to ask you next because it seems that many of the North Poudre folks go down to Arizona for their vacations.

Meyer, - That's right. No, the Co-Bank serves mostly coops and cooperative farmers too.

But there are some big farmers in California.

Latham - So where do you take your annual vacation? Do you take one any particular place?

Meyer, - Well, we do. We've taken several cruises I think. We've taken 5. We've gone several places on the ship, which we really enjoy. And we go to California every year. We

usually like to hit Las Vegas a couple times a year, but it seems like we've lost our interest.

We don't seem to be doing much of that. But there are some other places we need to see.

I've never been to the south. And I'd like to see part of the south.

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Latham - So you have the one brother in California. Any others?

Meyer, - I have one brother in California and one in Cheyenne. Then I have three sisters.

So there were six of us.

Latham - And the brother in Cheyenne, what does he do?

Meyer, - He's retired now. He worked for the railroad. And then later as the railroad dis- solved in Cheyenne, he went to work for a boat company and made fiberglass boats. So he's

had a nice life, living a nice city life up there.

Latham - And your sisters, what do they do?

Meyer, - Sisters. We have one, her husband is a trucker, Chuck Holcamp. And she now lives in New Mexico. And then another sister. . . all are retired. . . he was a trucker too.

And then another brother-in-law who is a contractor. He ran for roads and things like that, running maintainer.

Latham - So your wife Marilyn was busy being a homekeeper then?

Meyer - Oh yes, very busy, yes. She's a homekeeper and likes a garden, and, of course, we planted probably, let's see, I think we counted, there was 900 trees out here, no it's 1000+, that's the way it was advertised, so all of those need to be trimmed and watered and hoed.

Latham - Christmas trees or. . .?

Meyer, - Well, just all kinds. . . well, they were really for protection, wind breaks. We planted a wind break north of here just 2 years ago. They call it a living fence. And there

were 800 trees involved in that.

Latham - So you've been taking advantage of some of like the services at the university where these folks invent all these fun things and. . .

Meyer - Well, we did in this project. We worked with the Forest Service. Not so much financially, but with their expertise because, well, first of all, we didn't had a tree planter,

and we never had a poly layer either. And we did need to know what species would be best to put on a living fence. And we did get some financial help through the ASCS Office. And a little bit from the SCS Office. I got a picture there that they sent me. I'll show you later.

Latham - Speaking of that type of thing, it came to mind for a moment that Budweiser, when they moved, were you on the board when Budweiser came in?

Meyer - Yes, I was.

Latham - How was that process? I haven't talked to anybody about that.

Meyer - Not anybody?

Latham - No, the manuals mention it a little bit because I guess it's family owned, some of the property that the place went on.

Meyer - Well, when Budweiser came to this country, it seemed like all farmers had such high hopes like they were really going to stimulate farming in this area. And they started by buying up some North Poudre water. But before it was done, they made a trade with the city and with the water district and so as I view it only for myself, I don't think they were really an asset to the country because they never did really get enthusiastic about putting out a barley contract, 1, and 2 is that their affluent needed to go out on a marginal land where they have grown alfalfa, and I'm not an alfalfa grower, but it didn't help the alfalfa producer because they were on the market selling alfalfa, and 3 is that all their waste was hauled off as an ensilage type feed to dairymen which was in competition with the farmer on the ensilage. So I never felt like they were really an asset and they're using some of our water that's gone. That water isn't replenished back to the river. It's gone, it's in human con- sumption, it's gone.

Latham - The problem with augmentation I guess.

Meyer, - Augmentation, yes, I guess that's right. Well, the fact is that most of their effluent?

is pumped out, I guess it is returning back to the river etc, but. . . Latham - A lot of it goes into bottles though.

Meyer, - Yes, and it is a first-class facility. It's got to be noted as that, and it's been good for Fort Collins I guess because it pays taxes and it puts some people to work, and I guess

we're all glad its there.

Latham - Yes, well there are a whole lot of people that didn't vote for it when the vote came. And I think some of that is hanging out there.

Meyer - I'm sure it is too, and I suspect that it wouldn't matter what industry came in, some- one wouldn't like, some people wouldn't like something of it.

Latham - Some of this obviously is maybe things you've learned after the fact. Or were you pretty tuned into what was going to happen when they were coming in?

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Meyer - Oh no we weren't. I wasn't really tuned in. Maybe some of the other board mem- bers were, but it really started, and it was my feeling that they were going to get their water from North Poudre. Well, I guess a trade with Larry Simpson and the city, they worked out

a deal where they got the water elsewhere. Actually, the city took the water. That's what they had already bought.

Latham - That's how they managed to get themselves within the city limits, was kind of nice and sneaky.

Meyer - Well, yes. There were things like that, sure. But I guess it's okay. It's part of the country now.

Latham - For sure. So you went to school, what schools did you go to here in this area?

Meyer, - I only went to one school and that was Waverly. That was the only school we went to was Waverly, and after that we went to the army for a couple of years, and that was the limit of my schooling.

Latham - Okay. You seem to have done well.

Meyer - Well, I guess, and probably been lucky too.

Latham - Are any of your fellow students that you went to Waverly school with still in the area?

Meyer, - Oh yes, there are quite a few around yet. They get older as I do. There are still a lot of them around, but there are not Many of them that stayed farming. Waverly wasn't

really an agricultural community. At that time North Poudre was, so to speak, poor because they didn't have much water, and you couldn't grow row crop. And so, it didn't attract row crop farmers. That happened in the Harmony area that's now under houses and Windsor and places like that you know. But later as the Monroe Canal came in, then row crop moved to that area too. But when I lived there Waverly was not really a. . . well, alfalfa, hay and

barley and that type farming.

Latham - Did you know many people that were also in.. . because I understand this, as you mentioned earlier, Monroe was a large sheep farmer. Did you know many other people that were doing that type of thing? I understand this whole area at one point in time was real big on sheep.

Meyer - Oh yes, it was. And there were some good farmers. I didn't mean it that way because there was the Ackermans and even my father-in-law lived up and farmed for Woods and Defficy which was a reputable company. They bought land up there. Of course when I later got married, why then it got better and I started farming sugar beets in the area and so on too. But sugar beet growing was limited in the beginning, and pretty much limited all the time in the Buckeye area, but it did have sugar beets.

Latham - This area is still a fairly large sugar beet producer isn't it?

Meyer - Well, it would be more, but the Western Sugar only bought one plat, or 2, Greeley and Fort Morgan, and they never bought the other factories. And so they were limited on how much acreage tonnage they could grow, and so they've limited us on acres. And that can't be changed, you know. They were just allotted.

Latham - Well, it seems to be an odd system. Not being part of it, I don't quite have a firm handle on it, but it seems kind of odd to be limited. If you want to grow, you grow. But I guess they just tell you this is what they'll take. . .

Meyer, - That's it. And you know sugar beets is one of the things yet that's got good poten- tial value as far as per acre. And, if it was unlimited, why I suspect they'd have at least twice as many acres or maybe more acreage in the country. But they're not able to process them, and so they've got to keep it limited for that reason. And I guess we're lucky to have them at all because when Western Sugar was in here they sold out everything and tore down some of the factories pretty rapidly. Loveland was one of the biggest slicing factories, and

we lost it, so Greeley is only a half of a factory, anyway, what do they call it, half of a millhouse, that isn't right, but. . . Bob Steven would help me out on that.

Latham - Now the sugar beets you grow, I've noticed that sometimes there is mini-mountain of these sugar beets in the fall sometimes sitting south of Wellington just outside of town. Is that kind of where the farmers in this area bring to. . .

Meyer, - Yes, Windsor is in this area, and then there is some south, Bunna?? and Seakage??

etc. But in our northern area, we deliver them to Wellington or haul them to the factory.

We have the option. And then there is only one receiving station I think left, and that is Windsor. I believe that's right. But they get crowded on slicing, and there has been a cou-

16

pie of years in the past where they've hauled these sugar beets way into Scotts Bluff in those 5 factories up there.

Latham - I've noticed in reading the records, all sorts of records I read, but it's not that infrequent that farmers have disputes with North Poudre. The Roberts over the years have

had lots of little battles it seems. The Bailans on occasion, it seems. And maybe the Ackermans I've seen in my notes. Have you ever had something perhaps where the ditch busted, and you had to go through a negotiation process with North Poudre over getting something fixed or whatever, or disputes perhaps over something silly like fencing or trees or whatever.

Meyer - No. My dad was never a property owner, and then myself, the ditch runs through here and when Ben Dumler was on there, he wanted to change the ditch in a couple of in- stances, and you could see it was for a very definite advantage, and we traded land, and never had any disputes with the company at all. But it certainly does happen. When I was on the board, it came to me as an awful surprise, Ben Dumler, as he was managing the company, he fixed an inlet into—what's the name of that little reservoir down there, it served Phil Schnore down there, Bob Steven could help me out on that [Laughter]

Latham - I should have brought my map.

Meyer, - I'll tell you in a minute. But anyway, he was doing the inlet and the board went down and inspected, and it looked like a wonderful job. It looked like he was doing a good job. And before we were. . . he took some trees out, but they weren't planted trees, they

were just volunteer squaw brush, I call them. And just cleaned them out so he could put this concrete in there because it had a tube as I recall before, and we almost got in a lawsuit over that, and at that time we were planting trees, and this gentleman came to the board, and he said, "I think as much of my trees as you do of your trees." And I felt there wasn't any comparison in. . . those were just volunteer. Anyway I think we had to end up paying that

man a little something. But, you know, it's funny how people's minds, they don't work for the same cause. It caught me at a complete surprise. I just didn't ever think, and I think he may even have dumped some dirt, a little bit more on his property than he should have, but, you know, the final analysis when it was all done, was a beautiful job, but he didn't see it that way. He only saw his trees getting torn out of there. So it's easy to do. You know, as

they built these reservoirs, and as they built these ditches, and if people wanted to plant a tree, the best place to plant that tree is along the ditch, so it could get watered. And that was sure nice until they got big, and then they caused the company a lot of problems. And you don't dare saw one down today because that's a real hassle. And that is a problem, and I was always--I am a tee lover--but I was always, for example, we talked to the Monroe's.

There used to be a row of trees up there. Well, there isn't room for the road, the tree, the ditch and the cement ditch in that little area, so I was always in favor of trimming out those trees. And they were beautiful up there. They were nice. But some places they just have to go. And especially around ditches. They are just a nuisance.

Latham - Sure. Of course, it's funny, I guess, in a series of annual reports the last page, it's a statement, and I forgot who it was from, Monroe or perhaps his predecessor, but it says

"Plant a tree." But I think what they were thinking about is not next to the ditch, someplace else.

Meyer, - Well, it might have been. . . the little Ackerman girl has a project of trees around the Buckeye School. It might have been that. But, yes, I'm certainly not against tree plant- ing, because I think the country needs more trees. And I intend to keep going on trees. We put the trees right on the end of the circle so the end gun can water them. In that way. . . they are a job, but I think that there ought to be more trees in the country. And I really don't know what happened to this country, and when you go back to Nebraska and Kansas and some of those areas where they planted trees on homesteads, and even for field protec- tion and things, and this country missed that somehow. I've asked SCS, and they don't understand either why they failed in those years because there should have been more trees along some of these outlying areas to stop some of the wind erosion and so on.

Latham - So you've mentioned the Ackerman's several times. Do you know that family pretty well?

Meyer, - Yes, we do. The fact is we have two of the Ackerman's working for us today, a father and his son, who were really a brother to the Ackerman's that are up there now. And they have a big spread up there and a nice ranch. Al Ackerman, when he came up there, he did a very good job. He was on the board up there for a little while too.

Latham - I remember. So have they been in this area as long as you folks have been?

18 Meyer, - Yes, equally as long.

Latham - What other families, perhaps that I would know, or that you. • • Meyer - That's been lifetime?

Latham - Yes.

Meyer - Well, you know, the Portner family was here for a long time. He was the one that mentioned to me one time at a 4-H meeting, our kids were involved in 4-H up there, that some of us come, some of us go, and some of us stay, meaning he was one that stayed, but I guess he did last long. But the Portners were a long time in Buckeye.

Latham - Yes, on the records they seem to have been around for an eternity.

Meyer - And a lot of people worked for him that stayed a long time up there. I guess I've got to say I'm getting old because I don't know too many people that's been here as long as we have. But it's changing.

Latham - Do you know the Roberts family at all?

Meyer - Well, years ago, we used to feed cattle for Evan, and so we knew of him, and knew him and his brothers. They had quite a history. I guess lately I don't know him too well because that's been a long time ago that we fed cattle for him.

Latham - Speaking of that, do you have any cattle on your lands?

Meyer, - No, we don't. We're strictly cash crop. And I feel better about it. We used to feed cattle. When we lived at Buckeye, we had as high as 400 head a year, and that was a lot of cattle for those times. We used to buy corn out of Cosad, NE, and I just worried, I

couldn't handle that. I've had as high as 500 acres of sugar beets, but I can't handle 800 head of cattle. We used to have the equipment, the loaders and the feed trucks. Now we've gotten rid of all of that. And I'd just rather cash crop.

Latham - So the cattle was just because of disease or just. . .?

Meyer - Oh, it was just so risky. And I know that it's something that you need to. . . and a farmer needs a place to put his feed. But I guess we've been lucky. There are some years that haven't worked well, and some years it's worked extremely well. But it's the same way feeding cattle, you know, some years you lose money, and some years you make. So, I

don't know, it's a standoff. It's a big job feeding cattle. It was for me.

Latham - Tell me about government, government policy, whether it be on a state level, federal level, what seems to affect you and your operation?

Meyer - Oh, man, it's going to be a big thing isn't it? Well, first of all. . . I was talking to a farmer from California just yesterday. Whatever California seems to do, it seems to end up here in Colorado. And he was telling me how EPA has finally got to the farmers in California. So we need to suspect that EPA will be here too. All drainings, and things that farmers have been for years negligent of, had to be corrected. But we will have to box up all our old used oil, and we'll have to be surd how we use pesticides, and we will have to be sure how to keep the records and keep the records. And in fact tomorrow morning I've got a meeting with someone, and that's what we're going to do is, I've assigned the records to one of the Ackerman's, and we're going to sit down and finalize those records because the trouble with the government, they won't say exactly this is the form that you use and you have it done 30 days after you made the application. Nothing is really cut and dried, nothing written in stone. So, by not taking any chance though, we better have our records. I think that all of has got to do. Really, farmers have been negligent in their own way. For exam- ple, they might put on Trephlan-Eptarn on a bean field, and I've seen it, you know they'll take those cans, five gallon cans, that's the way they used to come, and they'll sit there for years in an area. And that's just being, well, not tidy, and you know, there might be some stuff left in those cans. And being kind of sloppy in some ways. But all of this is changing.

From the five gallon can, it now comes in like a pint jar.

Latham - Oh yes, powerful stuff?

Meyer, - Powerful stuff. And so, you know it's doing away with the can and doing away with some of the problems.

Latham - Okay, from the little reading I know about that, I guess the pesticide companies also in the past have not been overly informative, maybe to the farmer is saying, "Well, this is really how much you need for that much land, and. . ." instead of "Here, take the big bucket and have at it."

Meyer - Yes, well, I think what has happened, maybe not so much in this country, but in the midwest and even our eastern part of Colorado where they would tank mix atrozene and whether it needed anhydrous ammonia or not, why they'd go the full amount. And some of

20 that stuff has gotten into the ground stream. And I guess we've detected some here, but I think that farmers really have every day an earth day. I think all farmers are involved in the environment. I understand, we've got a little building over here now that's a federal funded project, and they're going to see how much we disturb the environment by measuring it out through the air and different things like this. So, I don't think that farmers have destroyed the environment like some of the manufacturing companies of some of this stuff that they've polluted the rivers and streams. But we have been sloppy in some areas that needed to be corrected.

Latham - I was, on the way up here, listening to a story about apparently the sugar cane growers in Florida have just settled out an agreement with the EPA folks I guess over the Florida Everglades, having to do with certain nitrogen runoff I guess, just because of heavy dosage going into, the water is flowing into the Everglades and causing problems to the alligators I guess, I'm not sure. So it's interesting to see that.

Meyer, - Well, yes it is. I don't know what the answer is. I know that nitrogen moves both up and down, and there is really not much you can do about that. Especially in runoff, it runs into the nearest wherever it's going, a hole or river or whatever, but that's where it's going to go. And, I think though, that can mostly be controlled.

Latham - So some of this regulation doesn't really bother you then?

Meyer - Oh yes, sure they do. For example, they want to take way too many chemicals off the market. I had an article that I saved, and I don't whether I could put my hand on one, but it deems worth reading. Even the woman who is in charge of that says, "Hey, EPA, we ought to have another look at that because this is practically all of the chemicals." And there can't be anything that is carcinogenic. Anything, I think the article read something like that we are a million times less apt in 1993 compared to, I think they termed it with 85, and, you know, it just seems so ridiculous that if it proved in a rat that it carried any forms of cancer, it was just going to be eliminated. And so it involves practically all the chemicals. You know, there is. . . I guess for our part, we don't need them all, but I certainly think that we need to watch them, and we need to use them right. Even if it takes farmers to go to school.

I call it the billion dollar blunder because chemicals aren't put on right, and especially when you have a pint bottle that covers 30 acres, say. Boy, it's so close that you almost have to

have a radar detector, in fact, they have them on the co-op spray coop. It just drops it in you might say.

Latham - How would you deliver that, through a plane, or a. . .

Meyer - Either. We have a spray coop. Most of our stuff is banded just right over the row.

And chemicals are getting so expensive, and probably that's part of the reason too because there are so many lawsuits and things that happen, it puts a lot of pressure on the chemical companies.

Latham - Something probably that North Poudre is going to have to look for just for chemi- cals in their water as they deliver it to you, or they deliver it to anybody else, or where the house perhaps being built next door to it, and they rent out the tops of the water for the boaters and things like that.

Meyer, - Yes, water quality is sure going to be one of the things that will be looked at down the road. You can be assured. And the thing that does bring problems to the agricultural community is the fact that some of these city people move out here to enjoy the rural envi- ronment, and then an airplane does come over, and he's spraying just common 2-4D Banvel that you almost could drink, and then a lawsuit comes up and you end up paying a quarter of a million for it. And it's happened too many times.

Latham - Well, we're almost running out of tape here, and I was just wondering if you perhaps had any last thoughts or things perhaps as we've talked about that I haven't let you talk about.

Meyer - Well I. . .

END OF TAPE ONE, SIDE II START OF TAPE TWO, SIDE I